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- The 67th Wyoming Legislature is nearing completion of its second week.

We'll hear again from the Speaker of the House, Representative Albert Sommers, as well as two Democratic Party leaders at the State Capitol.

I'm Steve Peck of Wyoming PBS.

Join us now for "Capitol Outlook" (triumphant music) - [Announcer] This program is supported in part by a grant from the BNSF Railway Foundation, dedicated to improving the general welfare and quality of life in communities throughout the BNSF railway service area, proud to support Wyoming PBS.

- [Narrator] And by the members of Wyoming PBS.

Thank you for your support.

- Welcome to "Capitol Outlook" I'm Steve Peck of Wyoming PBS.

We're here today with the Speaker of the Wyoming House of Representatives, Representative Albert Sommers.

- Hello, Steve.

- Good morning, thanks for being with us.

We are here now nearing the end of the second full week of the session.

Still early going in our eight-week general session.

But typically, what is the legislature trying to get done at this stage of the session?

- So Steve it's really kinda interesting.

You know, I've started really slow in the House, because we have 29 new members and 27 true freshmen.

I'm kinda pacing it, you know?

But we're getting quite a few bills out now.

But the first and foremost thing is getting new legislators, because we have so many of them, to understand the process, to understand our decorum and our expectations of civility.

And so that's the number one thing.

But riding on that, and what is in the initial wave, will be all of the interim committee bills, right?

Typically, both sides, the House and the Senate, the first thing they hear is the work that occurred the whole last interim in the off season where we really took really good public input, fleshed out ideas, studied ideas.

And so those are the first bills that hit.

- And in the case of these freshmen, most of them, or all of them weren't part of that.

- Right, right.

- Happened before the election.

- Exactly, Steve, so you start out, I try to start out with what I perceive as the easiest interim topic bills.

And then it's up to the chairmen to educate those new members that, you know, this is why the committee did this during the interim.

And you'll often see that interim committee bills will die in committee when they get here, because the new members simply haven't heard the testimony that the old members heard.

And so there's an education piece there.

But that's where we start, is with interim.

- And when a bill like that would die, as you mentioned, would it be partly because the new members simply don't feel familiar enough with it to vote on it?

Or a sense from the chairman that the committee can't give the appropriate recommendation, because we just aren't up to speed on it yet?

- Yeah, they're not vested in it, right?

You know, you spend a whole summer on an interim topic, and you finally get a bill out in a committee, in a joint interim committee, you're invested in that bill.

When you come in brand new to a committee, on a new legislature, you're not invested in it.

You may not entirely believe in the bill.

You haven't heard all the testimony.

So it's just a function, it happens.

But it happens more when you have more turnover.

- What's your sense of the session so far?

How is that particular part of it going?

You're satisfied with the progress that the new members are making?

- I actually am.

No, I think we have some really good new members.

And I think they're really trying hard to catch up with the decorum and the process.

And I've been impressed that they have actually... You know, that they're actually going to the mic now, and doing the right things.

So yeah, I think it's paying off.

- I know you and Senator Driskill last week talked about actual civility as a big part of what's going on, but in addition, just these decorum things you're talking about, it's more than just rules and regulations.

It helps you get the work done, doesn't it?

- It does.

And I explained to some members just yesterday, if we follow decorum and civility and the process when we're on easy topics, right?

So when we go to the mic, and we get in a habit of treating each other in the appropriate way in the legislature, then when we get to the hard topics, it's more second nature to act that way.

So when the passion rises up, you realize that the decorum you've learned help pushes that down to where you talk about the issue and not the person.

- Thinking back to... And I wanna get to some specifics here soon.

But thinking back to your days early in your legislative career, it is a big heavy lift all of a sudden, isn't it?

You mentioned earlier this morning about, for example, the reading load that is expected of a member.

And it's more than most people in any walk of life would ever be confronted with, how you deal with it?

- You know, every member will find his own way in that path.

And I've found that, you know, I read a lot of bills early in the morning, and I read a few bills after session, and then on the weekends I read a lot of bills.

So I try to digest lists of bills.

And then what happens is, the longer you're in the legislature, a lot of these issues are rerun, right?

And so they're things you've seen before with little tweaks.

So that helps an older legislator.

And then the other thing is, you actually learn how to read law better, and you learn how to go back in the statute books and see where that law fits in.

- [Steve] Interesting.

- So you understand how to read... You know, we're not all trained lawyers.

You know, certainly, I'm a cowboy.

So I had to learn to go back in statutes and how to read what was brought before me with relationship to what already exists in statute.

And you don't do the full, let's just call it the full monty on everything, right?

But when you're starting to not understand something, or if you don't quite get it, then you dig a little deeper.

And I think they'll learn that over time.

- So each member, I think, typically, comes to the legislature with a bill or two, an issue or two that he or she feels well versed in upon arrival.

And then there are others that you become well versed in.

And you've gotta count on each other, don't you?

- Yeah, it's really true, you know?

So you have ag issues and oil and gas issues, and you have medical issues, and you have education issues.

And on the floor there's all of those people, right?

And so you gain some expertise from those around you.

And then obviously, when you're in certain committees, eventually you gain expertise being on those committees.

And you know, I've said it over and over, the most wonderful thing about the legislature is the ability and I guess the opportunity to learn about so many issues, I just find it fascinating.

You know, every session something pops up, and you go, wow, I didn't know that, that's really cool.

- So you become experts on things that before you might not have even known about.

- Even known about.

- Much less cared about.

- Right, exactly, exactly.

- But you do finally.

Well, one of the things specifically that is what I think would be viewed as one of the big bills that's already being talked about getting some action, is HB30, it may have a couple of other related bills to it.

But it's this measure that would create a big new endowment for retraining adults in different careers, based on changes in the Wyoming economy.

We'll just put it that way.

Walk us through briefly what that concept is, and what's happening with it so far.

- So Steve, let's first talk about the endowment model.

- Okay.

- Right?

So right now, the legislature has surplus revenue.

And we typically like to save that.

And there's a multitude of ways to save that surplus revenue.

You can do short term savings like in the LSRA, Legislative Stabilization Reserve Account, kind of our just regular savings plan, checking account, that sort of thing.

Actually, the general fund's more like the checking account.

But then you can do really long-term savings, which are in our permanent accounts, Permanent Mineral Trust fund, Common School Land Account.

But then there's these ideas that we can also save money in these endowments that the state's created.

So think about the Cultural Trust Fund.

Think about the Wyoming Wildlife Natural Resource Trust Fund.

And so we have these opportunities during this surplus to save money, but target income.

And so the idea behind the Wyoming's Tomorrow is can we create an endowment that saves money?

Because we're not gonna spend that principle.

But then can we target that income to something that's important in Wyoming?

- Because that base, the corpus, as the term that's used, earns income just as an investment.

It earns interest income, for example, or return on investment.

And that's the money that actually would be spent.

- Exactly.

- Right.

- The Hathaway Scholarship Account, you know, the income spent on scholarships.

And so as we look at Wyoming's Tomorrow and we look at the Hathaway Scholarship, which has been a really great opportunity for children in Wyoming, but a lot of times we have new people come in, or we have people that never took the opportunity on the Hathaway, or they were simply not ready for education at that moment in their life.

And now we have people that are adult learners.

And there's really no opportunity.

There has been little opportunity to find them a scholarship or grants in order to get them educated and build a workforce, right?

Ultimately, we've tried it with Wyoming Works.

And now we're trying with Wyoming's Tomorrow.

And there's some effort to kinda merge those two.

But the idea is if we have a need for workforce development in Wyoming, if we have people that wanna better their life at an adult age, do we have the opportunity to give them some education to fulfill our work needs in Wyoming?

So Wyoming's Tomorrow, Wyoming's Works, all of those are created as a means by which to educate, in the case of Wyoming's Tomorrow 24 and up.

And so where this really started was LCCC.

Laramie County Community College had a partnership with the Ellbogen Foundation, and provided some adult learning scholarships.

And those were really successful.

Those students went on to do good things.

They've been tracked.

EllBogen's kind of funded some other ones around in other community college, and those have been successful.

So we're trying to see if there's an appetite to take that scholarship to all community colleges, and even the university.

And I think really it could be a transformational moment similar to the Hathaway.

I think it is really a generational opportunity for Wyoming.

- Community colleges, there's seven of those in Wyoming.

There's about to be an eighth.

Why are they so important to this concept?

- Yeah, you think about the mission of community colleges.

One, they're centric to their community, right?

And so often both their income, because they all get meal levies from their local government.

So they're really tied in to the local level.

But then there's the local issues.

What are the industries in the areas, those regions of the state?

And you know, you can see in Eastern Wyoming Community College, maybe more of an ag-centric sort of function.

And then you go to Western Wyoming, and you might see a oil and gas mine centric philosophy.

And because of those philosophies, they're kinda centered around industries.

And so they're more job focused.

You know, in community colleges, there's a lot of credential programs that might be less than a semester, or a year, or a semester or a year, or less than two years.

And so the community colleges are really the driver of the workforce in Wyoming that is not a bachelor of science driven workforce.

- Yeah, some of the colleges now offering those four year degrees, but in these more specific areas that you're talking about.

Now, the University of Wyoming's on board with this as well, in general, of course.

It's more of a statewide emphasis than the individual colleges are able to do.

- Correct.

And in one of the bills, in my bill, I even... And it may get changed over time, but I put in a focus for, kind of a preference for teacher preparation students, students that are in teacher preparation programs.

And we know we have a shortage of teachers in Wyoming.

So can we focus some of these adult education dollars to try to help those adult education learners that wanna become teachers?

So we know there's aids that are in school that have been working as aids, and sometimes they wanna move up and become a teacher.

Or for example, you might have somebody that had a bachelor's degree, and is now a substitute teacher, and he sees a path that he wants to become a teacher in a certain topic, or a certain area.

And so it gives that opportunity.

- Of course, the colleges wanna buy into this too, and they have their priorities.

One of those, I'm speaking as a former community college trustee, is persistence completion, students who they can count on, feel they can count on to come to school, to sign up for the next semester, to head toward a degree.

And that's what a scholarship opportunity often is able to do, whether it's for a volleyball player, or retraining an older student.

The belief is, I presume, that these will be motivated students, and that's good for the colleges.

- Steve, you're exactly right.

You know, when people go back to school as an adult, typically, if it's anything around any kind of job, they're motivated, right?

- Yeah.

- They're past that time in their life where it's just, let's go to college and party.

They're going, I wanna make a leap in my life here.

And I think they're at that point in time, where they're more productive.

- A bill that got some attention during the week was on sales tax reform, where one concept was to lower the overall rate of sales tax in Wyoming, but compensate for that in a way, by eliminating some of these exemptions that many businesses and industry categories are enjoying, or using now.

Where does that stand as you're seeing it?

And what can you tell us about that idea?

- Yeah, the idea to lower and broaden sales tax has been an idea that's been around the legislature a long time.

And I think Chairman Harshman would be the best to talk about it.

But it's really this idea that, so we capture some services in sales tax, but most we don't.

So for example, when you go to the mechanic, you'll pay sales tax on the oil filter, but you won't pay sales tax on the mechanic's work.

And so the idea is, should we broaden that tax base to include more services, and lower the overall rate?

Maybe we may bring in a little more money, maybe we don't.

But should we capture a broader group of people?

And should we get rid of exemptions?

Because we always like to exempt for different reasons.

And there's been different attempts on the exemptions.

I think in the long run, if we get back in a downturn, I think that's one of the ideas that will be looked at really hard, is this broadening and maybe lowering of the sales tax rate.

- If nothing else, it might be seen as simplifying the tax structure, which is something that in tax reform is always one of the watch words.

It's too complicated.

Small businesses sometimes don't know which way to turn.

And maybe that's part of what the philosophy behind this is.

- Well, and many people say that a broader tax is a fairer tax, right?

Because you're hitting a broader group of people.

There's no appetite in Wyoming, and I don't think there will be for a long, long time, for an income tax, but we're fairly used to a sales tax.

So I think over time, that's a topic that will keep coming up, that idea of broadening the sales tax.

- Let me bring up a specific part of a sales tax now, which has to do with cigars.

What do you know about why the tax on a cigar, how did that become a legislative issue?

- Yeah, I have no idea.

(both laugh) - But it's important to- - It's important to some people.

But I haven't tracked that bill a lot.

But it's kind of an interesting little topic.

- It is, and there are these bills that come up from time to time that attract early attention, just because they are a little above what might be called the more mundane, but very important legislative activity.

But that's one that came up.

We'll follow that along through the session.

Another bill that got some attention this week, or in the previous week, has to do with restrictions and the structure of the liquor licensing in the state, where we would create another category, and broaden the category of liquor licenses available for restaurants, grills.

So that the liquor license itself isn't viewed, as one legislator called it, as sort of a commodity separate from the restaurant business.

So that a liquor license wouldn't be a $200,000 item that can be bought and sold independent of the business itself.

What's going on with that?

- You know, that topic's been brought up a lot.

And it really is, you know, well...

So you have a bar restaurant owner that has one of those, and he sells his business, and he goes, you know, I had to pay for this, why shouldn't the next guy?

So even though it's not in statute, you're basically taking something away from somebody.

But the idea of broadening alcohol regulations, right, over time, we've been doing that.

We are slowly getting wider and wider on the regulation on alcohol.

You know, at different times we'd talk about just getting the state clear out of the alcohol business.

You know, we're one of the few states that actually are the arbitrator of alcohol, you know?

We are the ones that are the wholesaler for alcohol in the state of Wyoming.

That's kind of an odd thing, when you think about it.

But that's old law, goes way, way back, because we wanted to control the use of it.

Well, we're starting to nibble away at that structure over time.

And it'll be interesting to see where it goes.

- I think a lot of that comes from the days immediately following prohibition.

We're talking about almost a hundred years ago now.

- Yep.

- Where if we're gonna re-legalize alcohol, we wanna have some sort of control in it.

Some of these issues such as the endowment, or maybe being a wholesaler for alcohol, might seem to sort of go against the general Wyoming Republican conservative idea of stay out of the marketplace, kind of.

But what we're seeing, particularly in the endowment concept, is this can be government's job, if we structure it, control it the way we want to.

target it to something that we in Wyoming think is important, even if it isn't along what you might see, that sort of textbook party line.

Was that fair to say?

- You know, I think it's fair to say.

Now, how we spend money will always be partisan, and partisan within parties, even, you know?

Depending on what your philosophy is on how you wanna appropriate money.

But I think what's universal is the fact that we know in order to have economic development, you have to have a workforce.

One of the kickers against Wyoming from companies trying to relocate here is we don't have the means to get a workforce.

Part of that is our population.

And part of that is we don't have enough trained individuals in those areas.

So if we can target some training into areas that can help economic development, then in the long run, that's a everybody love that idea.

You know, the alcohol thing, I'd say we're actually...

It is I think a very libertarian idea, that you know, hands off, right?

So that's why you're seeing that chipping away.

- So fewer restrictions maybe creating a bigger market?

- Yeah.

- We just have a couple of minutes left.

Bills that you're watching that might start to gain some momentum here?

I know a big part of what you're doing there is just trying to organize.

You look at the number of bills that are on file from compared to a week ago, it's just growing all the time.

How do you prioritize what gets more attention than something else?

- Right, so I introduce bills.

- Yeah.

- So I go through the bucket of bills, I call it.

I target committee bills first, right?

Those are the ones that have been worked.

- [Steve] They have a headstart in the process.

- They got a headstart in the process.

I prioritize committee chairman's bills second, because they know about issues that maybe didn't come up in committee because it wasn't part of a topic.

But they've heard and understand from the expertise they have.

And then part of what I wanna do is I wanna get new freshmen a bill out, so they can travel through the process.

- So that's part of what you wanna do.

Make sure that an individual legislator, a new law maker, has a chance to at least run a bill, and see what that's all about?

- Right, no, it's really...

I think it's actually important.

You know, maybe not in your first session, but by your second session, because you learn the process better.

And then I also wanna balance my committees.

You know, I have 10 committees that do this work.

I've been feeding 'em kind of an equal number of bills.

And then they'll work through those over time.

Just so I balance, I do a balance of that as well.

- Well, everything's gonna start getting a lot more specific in the weeks to come.

And I wanna have you on "Capital Outlook" and Senator Driskill as well, as often as you're able and willing to come.

So we can talk more about this.

And we'll of course, be hearing from individual sponsors, committee chairman, those wider group of legislators as well.

For today, I thank you again for being with us.

Every day is a busy day at the Wyoming Legislature.

And I know you have another one today.

We appreciate your time.

Speaker Albert Sommers, thanks for being with us on "Capital Outlook."

- Thank you Steve.

- Republicans are the clear majority in the Wyoming Legislature, even the overwhelming one.

But our legislative body does have Democrats in it as well.

And in our second segment of "Capital Outlook" we'll be hearing from two of those, stay with us.

- Welcome back to Capital Outlook.

We're here today with two Democrats in the 67th Wyoming legislature, Senator Chris Rothfuss of Albany County, Representative Mike Yin of Teton County.

Welcome to you both.

Thanks for being with us this morning.

- Thanks.

- Thanks for having us.

- You two have leadership positions in the legislature this year.

Senator, what's your official title in addition to Senator?

- So I'm the Senate Minority Leader.

- [Interviewer] What does that mean exactly?

- Basically, it means I'm leading the debate on the floor on behalf of the Minority Party.

So obviously a lot of work to ensure that that minority voice is heard and we have a responsibility to bring challenges to the majority positions and make sure that we're not just hearing that, I guess, chorus of voices on the majority side, but providing opposition and reflecting that minority voice.

- Representative Yin, what's your title in leadership?

- The title is House Minority Leader.

So similar.

- Similar duties.

- Similar to the Senate side.

And you know, I think my focus this session has been to really figure out what are the things that we can work on together with the majority side and as opposed to what are the things that we have to work at odds on to really prove that the minority does want the goals for what is best for Wyoming.

- How many Democrats are in the house this year?

- We have five out of 62.

- Five of 62.

How many senators?

- Two of 31.

- Two of 31.

The House Democrats actually lost a seat in the general election.

This is a position that the party's been in now for some time.

I mean, I think it's always been for generations now, the minority position.

Acutely so now, but there's a role for you to play.

You touched on it a little bit.

What do you see as the purpose of Democrats in state government these days?

- Well, we represent 25% of the state of Wyoming realistically.

It's not that there is that small of a population of Democrats, it's that the way that our election process works tends to lead to a disproportionate representation by the majority party.

And then as the minority, it's not like we can correct that easily through some quick legislative fixes, regrettably.

So we do have significant responsibility to first represent that 25%, but also look for common solutions and common ground in ways that we can build the state through that common vision.

Honestly, our small but I think effective caucus over the past decade and longer has been incredibly effective at ensuring that we're seeking that middle ground and that we're building towards solutions.

One of the things that we really don't do is just spend our time shaking our fist and complaining.

And it might seem like that's the position we'd end up in with this small of groups as we have, but the reality is we look for those coalitions, we build coalitions, and we move forward good legislation on behalf of the people of Wyoming mostly supporting the people, which is always our focus, you know, what's best for the people of Wyoming, not just the companies, not the wealthy, but the rank and file people of Wyoming.

- I think anyone who follows debate in the legislature sees that both of you play significant roles in debate.

You're called upon often.

You have a point of view that the majority party wants to hear, needs to hear.

Would you agree?

You don't feel overwhelmed, I presume.

- I think it is beneficial that we have those perspectives there.

I do wish that it was a larger group to share that perspective for sure.

But I think it also means that it is incumbent upon the minority floor, the minority caucus to really show that we are trying to achieve the same dreams as everyone else, which is making sure Wyoming is a place that everyone can live and raise a family and find opportunity and make sure that their kids can stay in Wyoming too.

- What committees are you serving on this year?

- So this year I am on the Corporations, Elections and Political Subdivisions Committee as well as the Labor and Health Committee.

- So those are important jobs.

What legislation initially is standing out for you in your committee work?

- You know, one bill that we heard in our Labor and Health Committee was a postpartum extension from 60 days to one year to make sure that mothers that are under Medicaid would be able to go through that full year of making sure that they have healthcare to make sure that they can raise a healthy baby and to make sure that they stay healthy themselves because I think as many moms know, the first year of parenthood is really some of the hardest work there is.

And making sure that they stay healthy, I think is important for healthy families across the state.

- So Medicaid expansion has been an issue for several sessions now under the federal broader terminology of doing that.

I know that's gonna come up again this year, but here's a way where without fully embracing that concept, which is divisive, it's a way to increase the reach of Medicaid as it exists right now.

- Yeah, and I think it really speaks to ensuring that we have healthy babies that grow up into healthy adults that can contribute to society as well as making sure that those moms are taken care of so they can continue raising their child in the best possible way in Wyoming.

- Tell us about where the effort at larger Medicaid expansion stands here nearing the second week, completion of the second week of the session.

- Sure.

So right now, as we film this today, it's in the Revenue Committee.

They have a very long morning ahead of them to ensure that everyone, because we have a fairly new Revenue Committee, gets educated on what it means for the state, what it means for our budget and what it means for both our providers and our patients.

And I think across the board, I see positives for every part of those.

- Senator, you've been in the legislature and leadership now for a long time.

You recall when the Medicaid issue first appeared.

- Yep.

- Oftentimes a bill which seems absolutely dead at the beginning can gain some momentum and do you sense that that could be happening with Medicaid expansion?

- Well, I'm hopeful and I've certainly been hopeful before.

- Yeah.

- The reality is we still have no alternative solution available to Medicaid expansion.

So realistically, whether you like Medicaid expansion or not, it's not like there are other options to choose from.

This is a challenge that is honestly due to the Affordable Care Act and the Supreme Court decision in Sebelius that led to why states have to expand Medicaid and without further federal action, we really don't have any choice or alternatives available.

So as a result, we have 20,000 Wyomingites that literally have no access to affordable healthcare.

There are no alternatives, no options.

And what ends up happening is when they finally need healthcare, they end up in the emergency room.

That puts pressure on the hospitals, puts pressure on their finances, which leads to financial insecurity for the smaller hospitals.

And what ends up happening is their costs are born at a higher rate by the rest of us, effectively through our insurance or through our individual payments.

So it's not as if those individuals aren't having those costs paid for, but it's born by the rest of us at a much larger expense.

- Part of the issue isn't it, is that Wyoming just has so few insurance, - Yeah.

- health insurance providers as it is, and so as you say, there are fewer options available.

Many other red states have already done this, right?

- Absolutely.

So most of the states, I think what 38 states, including DC I believe is the current count, which includes at least about 13, what you'd call red states.

- Right.

- They have not rolled it back.

They have not scaled it back.

They've recognized that it's in their financial interest to do so.

Some of those have been through elections, but whatever process gets them there, it's been a financial boon for their state as well as a way to shore up their healthcare system and the finances of their hospitals and their local community healthcare providers.

- You're here in at the legislative session now talking about specific bills.

Have you thought about or would you speculate on how Medicaid expansion might do on a Wyoming ballot?

Do you think there's wider support for it among the population than tends to be shown at the capital?

- The University of Wyoming has done some surveys and some research in recent years, and it does appear that there's broad support for Medicaid expansion based on an understanding that we've already paid for it.

We submit the taxes to the feds, we pay for the service, and we just do not accept the money back, first of all.

And second of all, in understanding that it does support the entire community.

So based on those findings and those findings even indicate that just among the majority party within the state there is support, a majority support.

So I would expect that if it were able to go to a ballot, which is certainly something Leader Yin and I support, we would end up with Medicaid expansion.

- You'd said the current estimate is about 20,000 Wyoming residents affected by this.

Many of them are voters, right?

Assuming they'd be, many of them aren't or children.

- [Senator Rothfuss] Sure.

- But they're voters who possibly would be supportive of that if their own, even their Republican representatives ended up supporting it.

It could be not necessarily a political liability or is that realistic?

- Well, realistically, most of the people that are in need of the additional assistance through Medicaid are probably working two or three jobs at any given time and don't get the time off an election day to vote.

So while they're voters, these tend to be the disenfranchised voters that don't have their voice heard, are not able to engage, as strongly in the political process as others.

And honestly, I think that's one of the reasons why we don't have Medicaid expansion is the folks that really need Medicaid expansion, they don't show up to our committee meetings.

They're struggling.

- So they become perhaps could be viewed as politically irrelevant almost in a cruel clinical way of looking at it.

- Yeah.

- This or could be part of the calculation.

- They're certainly not politically irrelevant, but they're definitely politically disenfranchised.

- Yeah.

Representative Yin, one of your early attention getting actions involves abortion access in Wyoming.

Tell us about that effort and why you think that's important.

- Sure, yeah.

So that bill specifically is one that just repeals the trigger ban.

So it goes back to the position that we used to be in before that, which was consistent with the Roe v. Wade ruling so it puts that standard at the viability standard.

I just wanted to make it very simple and just say, you know, the law that we passed last year, frankly was unconstitutional.

All we need to do to fix that is just repeal that, that trigger ban.

- And the way that the abortion access in Wyoming was highly restrictive before, but the bill you're proposing wouldn't ease those restrictions, but it wouldn't, it would just make sure that the procedure in some form would still be available.

- Correct.

- Yeah.

Senator, what's your committee work this year?

What committees are you on?

- So I serve on the Education Committee and the Minerals Business and Economic Development Committee, and then I chair the Blockchain Select Committee that Representative Yin serves on as well.

- Tell me what Blockchain is.

- All right, we might need a little while for this one.

- [Interviewer] Okay.

- But it is a distributed, secure, and trustworthy digital ledger.

So it replaces a ledger for transactions in a way that is independent from any particular source or required authority.

And therein lies its value that it independently provides kind of an authoritative transaction register and it then becomes the basis for things like digital assets, cryptocurrencies, potential future electronic transactions, as well as something that we're spending a lot of time working on in Wyoming is trying to enable smart contracts and the next generation of financial transactions.

- Why is it important to do that?

- So one of the things that we really have focused on for the past five years as we've worked in this blockchain space and digital asset space is a recognition that Wyoming needs to diversify into new economic sectors and industrial sectors that are viable in a forward-looking manner.

So, you know, what's the future?

Where are we going?

And when you step back and take a look at this, there aren't that many industrial sectors where we really could make a splash quickly.

Financial technologies and innovative financial technologies are one of those sectors and we look to South Dakota and what South Dakota did with changing their credit card policy a few decades back where they went from being entirely irrelevant when it came to financial technology and banking to the leading location for credit cards to house and domicile their headquarters.

They just changed their policy, they became innovative and all of the credit card companies went there and it ends up being a dominant part of their GDP.

We have that opportunity now with digital assets and so we've really embraced that opportunity and Wyoming at this point is certainly the national leader in governance when it comes to digital assets and we're considered a world leader as well.

- In some ways our position is the least populated state in the nation as a disadvantage to us.

But in making a technological advancements such as you're talking about, I think it could be an advantage.

Would you agree?

- Absolutely.

This allows us to really leverage those resources that we have available to us, recognizing that digital assets are transient.

They can be located wherever you want them to be.

You don't have to have any special infrastructure, but you do need to have an appropriate governance structure, consumer protections in place, access to courts that are knowledgeable in the area and clear bright line regulatory and statutory structure to support it.

Those are the types of things we can build while still allowing the people that wanna work in this industry to enjoy our incredible outdoors, our state, our wonderful wildlife.

And it really is, I think, a perfect compliment to what we have as a state.

- You mentioned that you're on the Education Committee.

Education as viewers will note, has been one of our central topics on this particular edition of Capital Outlook.

We spoke earlier with the Representative Summers talking about the concept of under HB30 of creating this large endowment for retraining of non-traditional age students.

What's your view of the endowment concept as a way to put some of Wyoming's money to use in ways other than simply sitting on it?

- You know, I think the endowment concept is a good model overall for using funds in the system where we have a budget that goes up and down based on revenue.

And so that really does ensure a long term outlook to make sure that a program is safe and maintainable and fundable over that long term, even when we do have dips.

I think the method of making sure that we can train non-traditional students is very good to make sure that we can build that workforce that is there that could be interested in working that just need the training to make sure that they can get that job.

But I think education-wise, it is a broader conversation over the course of even pre-K to all the way into higher ed.

So that whole range of spectrum is something that I think the state has a good place in, but can always get better for sure.

- Your committee, I'm assuming, will be tackling this bill or something very much like it?

- Absolutely.

So this Wyoming Tomorrow work that we've done, which includes this endowment is the work of the Education Committee.

And then there was a task force that was assembled before that to really look for ways to empower our workforce and our non-traditional students, folks that would like to have either new training or new education.

We recognize that while Wyoming has one of the highest high school graduation rates in the country, we actually have one of the lowest college graduation rates in the country, whether it's an associates level or a bachelor's degree.

And we know that we will enhance the prosperity and productivity of the people of our state if we provide that opportunity, which is challenging certainly once you're not in your younger years anymore.

It's hard to come by the time and the money and putting together this endowment to provide financial support for anybody in the state of Wyoming, any of our citizens, to look for that higher education.

It's only going to improve the lives of the people of our state.

- By providing financial support, we're talking about cash for a scholarship.

- That's correct.

- Typically to be used at a community college and it's as structured now, could be to the benefit of hundreds of students each year.

- Yeah, the larger we grow the endowment, the more we'll have available and the more we can offset that cost.

We do have a constitutional obligation that I love, which is that we need to make the university and higher education as free as is practicable.

And it's an aspiration that we always need to move towards.

We have certainly benefited over the years as Leader Yin has stated from the good times of oil and gas production and coal production and our minerals in this state, investing these resources and the finances from them in the future and making sure that we can try to aspire towards that constitutional provision, towards higher education, I think is a wonderful luxury for the people.

- You're an educator by training and profession and you've heard of course, as we all have about the brain drain, about people leaving the state and not coming back.

Am I right in thinking that one advantage possible or potential advantage of the Works Wyoming, is that it's people who already are in the state and want to stay here rather than not necessarily trying to attract them.

These are people who've made an investment in the state already.

- Yeah, that's absolutely true.

And we look for ways through our education system to try to provide that opportunity for our students to either stay in Wyoming or what I see as more important is get them to come back.

You know, I certainly don't mind our kids leaving for a while, but I do want them to come back and bring their wealth of knowledge and experience to Wyoming.

With Wyoming's Tomorrow though that's exactly what we're doing.

We know that we have families and people that want to be in Wyoming, they've committed to Wyoming and maybe they've worked here for a decade or longer, but want to do something different and stay here to do it.

And this training opportunity is a way to accomplish that objective.

- You both, before we came on this morning, told me that you had meetings with Governor Gordon.

How's your working relationship with the governor as the session kicks off?

- So I think it is a good relationship and I think that there are some shared goals that we're looking towards.

For example, the governor in his budget recommendation was to put money towards affordable housing.

And I think that's a big part of trying to keep our kids in the state to make sure that they could afford a place to live in the state as well as those folks that are struggling with rising property taxes, that there's property tax relief programs in place for that.

So I think there are shared goals that we have with the governor there and Representative Sherwood who is on appropriations just helped put some of that money back in as an amendment from the governor's recommendation towards affordable housing.

And I look forward to seeing that move forward.

- That's an issue of particular concern in your district, isn't it?

- It absolutely is, but I think it is a growing issue around the state where we see home prices rising everywhere, and if wages aren't matching with the rising costs of housing, then it makes it harder for anyone to live in Wyoming.

- That's also the greatest I think our most significant issue for Laramie is as well, really is affordable housing.

We struggle with that too.

- Gentlemen, I thank you for your time today.

You're important members of the legislature.

I hope residents of Wyoming realize that.

I'd like to have you on again during the session, - Happy to.

- to talk about progress with particular bills, but for now, thanks for being with us today on Capital Outlook.

- Thanks for having us.

- Anytime.

- Appreciate it.

- Thank you.

- All of our guests so far today on Capital Outlook have touched on a continuing point of focus at the Wyoming State House.

Here's more on this ongoing topic of discussion, legislation and debate.

(exciting music) All sessions of the Wyoming legislature are different, but one thing that never changes is the prominent place commanded by education issues at the capitol.

From committee meetings to floor debate, how to structure public education, how to evaluate it, how to update it and invariably how to pay for it, consume sizable chunks of time for lawmakers, the governor, department of education officials and voters across the state.

That's true again, this year.

Here's what the president of the Wyoming Senate said at the beginning of the legislative session last week, describing the funding task for lawmakers as a balancing act.

- But it ties directly back into our school funding.

And, you know, school funding's probably been the key issue of stability in our budgets.

When we go to every budget.

- For a long time now.

- We talk about what we're spending on this fund and what we're doing here, but the real truth of it is the monster in the room is how do we long-term fund education funding and minerals have paid all of our bills almost forever in Wyoming and the minerals are ratcheting down and anybody look, the coal revenues, all of them are dropping and how do we find a replacement source for that without taxing people?

And the interesting part is, is 70% of the property tax that gets paid goes to the schools.

So as we reform property taxes, you have to keep in mind we're taking a dollar away from the school every time we give a dollar back to you or to me, we've taken one away from the schools or 70% of one.

So that's the balancing act we got is how do we effectively do it?

'Cause the Constitution set property tax as a key funding source for education, a really a difficult issue.

- [Interviewer] Not everything about public education in Wyoming is tied strictly to funding by the legislature.

Governor Mark Gordon used part of his state of the state address this year to introduce a new executive initiative aimed at reworking key elements of the state education system in ways that are more structural than fiscal.

- During my time down here in Cheyenne, the conversation about education is usually at the legislative level gone between it's too expensive or you need to raise taxes.

These are not about education, these are about funding.

We wanted to refocus and it was a great time because the board of education, of course was looking at the profile of a graduate.

They do that on a 10 year anniversary.

And so we said, let's go out to the people, the consumers if you will, of education.

Let's calibrate with them, what their expectations are.

We wanna make sure that education works best for Wyoming.

And as I said, we got 7,000 respondents.

The committee I'd put together of stakeholders had a couple of businessmen, had a couple of citizens and parents and others really dedicated to listening to what people were saying in these communities.

Not only parents but community members, businesses, concerned citizens all came to several listening sessions around the state and there was a consensus that kind of came out of that work that we could look at education a little bit differently than we have been over the last several years.

I'm looking forward to working with the superintendent.

She's aware of some of the findings.

I'm very excited about what Megan's gonna bring to that conversation.

And I do think that this is an opportunity to craft education in Wyoming in a different light, figure out ways that we can not only fund it, but fund it based on what students are learning and how students are reacting to it.

So I think the RIDE survey, the ride initiative, the study was out in December.

- Tell us quickly what RIDE stands for.

- Reimagining and innovating the delivery of education.

- I see.

- You know, everything has to be an acronym.

- Sure.

That's a good one.

Let's RIDE.

- But the idea was that rather than having consultants tell us how this should go, we would listen to what parents' concerns were, what school boards, teachers and others were saying.

And we'd have an opportunity to think about not so much having a seat in a seat, if you will, but what the student's learning, what their mastery of a topic can be and trying to be able to respond to the needs of a student much better.

I think that leads to the opportunity for students to be engaged in career and technical education at an earlier stage.

Be able to craft the way they want to move through it.

We want to get kids involved, and I've said this over and over and over again.

I want an ambitious workforce and an innovative workforce.

Not just workers, we're not building robots.

What we're building is good citizens who are well-equipped for the changing industry.

And that's what's gonna make people come to Wyoming.

That's what's gonna make industry come to Wyoming.

And one of the things that I think is so important for our future is making sure that our education system is second to none because it's the families that are gonna make our main streets sing.

It's the families that are gonna wanna live here and have their kids grow up here where it's safe, where they can participate in sports in a way they can't in a lot of other communities, where they can participate in forensics and get a really top notch education.

So we're really committed to making sure that that works.

And it starts with RIDE.

- I can sense your enthusiasm for it, sitting here this morning.

I can't imagine there's a person in Wyoming who wouldn't wish you absolute success in the things you're laying out.

The governor's enthusiasm was evident again during his state of the state address when he introduced lawmakers to an important new partner in the educational initiative and made special mention of the vital workforce component necessary to make the new effort a success.

- Over the past year, my reimagining and innovating the delivery of education or RIDE advisory group spoke to the people who make up the fabric of our communities, parents, educators, students, and business owners.

After many months of listening and hard work by the RIDE, we now have recommendations for revitalizing Wyoming's entire education system from pre-K through higher education.

Prior to your recommendations include student-centered learning, focused on student progress that's based on demonstrated mastery of subjects, not sitting in a seat, pathways of opportunity for all students, utilizing innovative models to address mental health and behavioral issues, and offering a range of early childhood education options.

Now is the critical time for education and we must be bold and take action.

If you are as passionate about retaining our youth and homegrown talent as I am, then you must be open to new educational opportunities and I hope you'll join Superintendent Degenfelder and me in our efforts to ensure our students are well prepared to succeed in today's world.

- In Wyoming, education funding and policy changes never go away.

Consequently, our state leaders, both appointed and elected, never stop working on them.

Thanks for being with us on Capital Outlook and join us again next week.

(exciting music) - [Narrator] This program is supported in part by a grant from the BNSF Railway Foundation, dedicated to improving the general welfare and quality of life in communities throughout the BNSF Railway service area.

Proud to support Wyoming PBS.

- [Narrator #2] And by the members of Wyoming PBS.

Thank you for your support.